HERE THEY COME: YOUNGSTOWN URSULINE

[billcox]

Can private schools limit enrollment? Yes. Do they commonly do so in order to remain in a certain division for athletic purposes? I seriously doubt it! I'm sure it has been done but someone is always cheating weather it be at private or public schools.

Do private schools only admit students who are great athletes? No. It is absurd to believe that this is a common practice amongst private schools.

[Jesco White]

Can private schools limit enrollment? Yes. Do they commonly do so in order to remain in a certain division for athletic purposes? I seriously doubt it! I'm sure it has been done but someone is always cheating weather it be at private or public schools.

Do private schools only admit students who are great athletes? No. It is absurd to believe that this is a common practice amongst private schools.

I agree with you to a point. I think it is unfair to group all private schools together when we talk about private schools stacking the deck athletically so to speak. I don't believe they all do so. However, I just don't see how anyone can look at Ursuline and not think they are doing it. And, in my opinion, that's where a problem of major proportions exists.

[Mercerville Monster]

No you wouldnt...you'd be all pissed off and on here with a thread that says "Ursuline University" or something similar

I already call the Ursuline University so nothing would change there. To be honest I don't think me, you, or anyone else on this board is going to have to worry about the team we follow losing tO anyone in Canton or Massillon in December because they won't make it that far. It seems about once or twice every 10 years SEO sends a team there. If they get beat by 70 by a private school so be it, it's not going to be the end of my world. If it is the end of the world for anyone, then they have lived a pretty easy life.

Dont get me wrong, every December that i am up north I root like hell for the publics but it is just unreal the athletes that are on the field for those games and that is what i enjoy the most. I have been in argument over argument about this and I am one of the few that really doesn't care if they split the private schools and public schools up or if they keep it the same. I just like watching good football no matter if they were recruited to that school or if it was their local hometown public school. But if I was a betting man, I would put my money on the state never making two different divisions.

[billcox]

IF a school such as Ursuline is "playing dirty" then I hope they are caught and punished to the fullest extent. However, until it is proven that one of these schools is bending the rules in order to gain an unfair competitive advantage, the allegations of recruiting and so on against them are simply unfounded.


The following is a quote I found online by -Kent Sterling- Indianapolis area sports writer:

"Private school families pay tuition, sometimes at great sacrifice, in order for their kids to get what they believe is a better education. If public school families were as consistently invested in the academics and athletics as the private school parents, public schools wouldn’t need to tinker with the rules in order to compete."


I view his message as spot on. Private schools simply do things more efficiently across the board.

[Westfan]

AD's must consider this a problem as the multiplier was seriously considered and voted on this offseason. They just couldn't figure out a good way to do it. A multiplier in some form, should be used.

Why couldn't public schools that are against the current rules form their own association and play for their own title. What gives the OHSAA all the power?

[billcox]

List of private football playing schools in Ohio. This list is NOT guaranteed to be 100% accurate as I may have missed some or listed a couple that may not actually be private. Thought it might be interesting to see. I will add the rest as I compile them.

Central District
- Bishop Hartley
- Bishop Ready
- Bishop Watterson
- St. Charles
- St. Francis DeSales
- Newark Catholic
- Fisher Catholic
- Marion Catholic

East District
- Tuscarawas Central Catholic
- St. John Central
- Bishop Rosecrans
- Cuyahoga Valley Christian Academy

Independents
- Canton Central Catholic
- Cardinal Mooney
- Fairfield Christian Academy
- Grove City Christian
- Landmark Christian
- Lehman Catholic
- St. Edward
- St. Ignatius
- St. Thomas Aquinas
- St. Vincent-St. Mary
- St. Wendelin
- Sts. John & Paul
- Ursuline

Northeast
- St. Paul
- Archbishop Hoban
- Benedictine
- Lake Catholic
- Notre Dame-Cathedral Latin
- Padua Franciscan
- Walsh Jesuit
- Cleveland Central Catholic
- Holy Name
- John F. Kennedy
- St. Peter Chanel
- Trinity
- Villa Angela-St. Joseph
- Youngstown Christian
- Cuyahoga Valley Christian Academy
- Elyria Catholic

Northwest
- St. Joseph Central Catholic
- St. John's
- St. Henry
- Lima Central Catholic
- St. Mary Central Catholic
- Toledo Central Catholic
- Toledo St. Francis DeSales
- Toledo St. John's Jesuit
- Toledo Christian

Southeast
- Portsmouth Notre Dame

Southwest
• Archbishop Elder High School (boys)
• Badin High School (coed)
• Bishop Fenwick High School (coed)
• La Salle High School (boys)
• Archbishop McNicholas High School (coed)
• Archbishop Moeller High School (boys)
• Archbishop Purcell Marian High School (coed)
• Roger Bacon High School (coed)
• Cincinnati Country Day School
• Cincinnati Hills Christian Academy (coed)
• St. Xavier High School (boys)
• Summit Country Day School (coed)
- Dayton Christian
- Middletown Christian
- Troy Christian
- Chaminade-Julienne
- Carroll

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

selon, you could not be more correct, it is statiscally impossible to have this type of program year in and out that can beat most d1 and d2 programs in the state. without the recruiting of huge metropolitan areas. ironton who is only 2 players away from d5, could never compete against ursilines schedule. and they have i think the second most playoff appearences in the state of ohio.and are a top team in the state every year in their division.anybody that does not see it, in my opinion, is being blind to the facts.why then are so many other states going to seperate championships.what would it hurt.
THE OLD SAYING TO BE THE BEST, YOU GOTTA BEAT THE BEST,is not even applicable here. that would be the equivalent of irontomn having
say ironton ----10,000
huntington-----------maybe 40,000
portsmouth --------25,000
and ashland, ky-------maybe 30,000
all those programs involved , you add up their totals, and thats roughly what youngstown ursiline has to choose from.and you can see how geographically spread out this area is.perhaps a small state.and they have this concentrated right there in one city.not to mention those that are trucked in from every outlying community that is struggling to field a team. THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE CALL FAIR.for years i've been beating this horse, hoping the right person sees it, and makes a change.

THANK GOD THIS FINALLY CAUGHT FIRE AGAIN, YOU CANNOT READ THIS POST, AND THINK THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN. I SPELLED IT OUT BETTER THAN I HAVE EVER SEEN IT BEFORE, UNFAIR ADVANTIGE ------YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT BUB.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

It isn't fair to the kids in public school when a school can stock their program like Ursuline and cut enrollment to keep them in Div 5.
Some thing does need done make 2 separate divisions for private schools would be the ideal fix.
And if a public wants to play a private then so be but let it be in regular season and not in playoffs.
When private schools win 4 or 5 of the state tittles every year then something is wrong just my view.

---------------AND ALL GOD'S PEOPLE SAID AMEN.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

[quote="The Flying Dutchman"]First of all, how many geeks have been turned away from YU? The only reason most kids transfer from one school to the next is sports so lets see how many non-athletes these schools are turning away before we say they hold down enrollment. I dont know of too many Catholic schools that would turn away anyone who could pay tuition but maybe your right. Vouchers on the other hand is something you need to take up with your politicians, they started that deal.
The reason they will not ever be seperate is schools like Elder, St. X, Moeller, Iggy, St. Eds, etc are cash cows for the OHSAA. If they seperate, those big schools will file an injuction and leave the OHSAA. There is already talk that Catholic schools in Cincy, Indy and Louisville are going to form a conference so they will have people to play if push comes to shove. The OHSAA loves to see 30000 people at a playoff game between Elder and St. X at 9.00 a pop.[/quote]--------------------DUTCH THIS AIN'T ST. JOE WERE TALKIN ABOUT THIS IS BIG BUCKS BROTHER.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

[quote="siderman"]AD's must consider this a problem as the multiplier was seriously considered and voted on this offseason. They just couldn't figure out a good way to do it. A multiplier in some form, should be used.

Why couldn't public schools that are against the current rules form their own association and play for their own title. What gives the OHSAA all the power?[/quote]-------------------------------------------------------AND FINALLY, THANK YOU SIDERMAN, I'LL USE GREEN THIS TIME FOR BIG BUCKS.

[Jesco White]

Personally, I'm not so sure that it is a matter of Ursuline breaking rules as it is them taking full advantage of the rules as they currently exist. It's hard for me to be "mad" so to speak at them for doing what the state allows them to do. I blame the OHSAA for the way things are in there current form. I really believe change is needed, but I truthfully don't know what that solution is. As I said in an earlier post, I don't think it's fair to group all private schools together, as not all private schools are benefiting athletically as a result of the current rules. I honestly don't know where changes need to be made, but I think it is never going to be a level playing field across the board the way things exist. Of course, nothing is perfect, so maybe the way things are is as good as it can get for now. That sometimes happens.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

jesco it is a situation that at the very least needs tweaked some.

[WitnessProtection]

Maybe the private schools are just doing a better job of recruiting and retaining talent than the public schools. Hiring a better recruiting coordinator would solve the problem for many public schools.
I mean, you have to admire the quality of the recruiting being done, since some of the top private schools mentioned are not coed.
Just sayin'.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

whatever.---------recruiting and public, should not be used in the same sentence.

[WitnessProtection]

YTB, it happens all the time.

Scenario Alpha
A kid from Somesmalltown High School is buddies with a kid from Someothersmalltown High School; they play ball together in the summer; hang out at the movie-house; end up going to the same sports camp; become friends.
The kid from Somesmalltown says to the kid from Someothersmalltown, "Hey, you should come to Somesmalltown High School and play for us. We'd have a great team with you here."
The kid from Someothersmalltown then convinces Mama and Papa to let him transfer.

Scenario Bravo
Dad A from Somesmalltown works in the same plant as Dad B from Someothersmalltown. Their kids play ball against each other. Dad A says to Dad B, "Boy, your offspring could sure help our team. And we've got a new coach coming in who's going to let the kids run wild on offense."
Dad B likes what he hears.

[mikepike]

List of private football playing schools in Ohio. This list is NOT guaranteed to be 100% accurate as I may have missed some or listed a couple that may not actually be private. Thought it might be interesting to see. I will add the rest as I compile them.

Central District
- Bishop Hartley
- Bishop Ready
- Bishop Watterson
- St. Charles
- St. Francis DeSales
- Newark Catholic
- Fisher Catholic
- Marion Catholic

East District
- Tuscarawas Central Catholic
- St. John Central
- Bishop Rosecrans
- Cuyahoga Valley Christian Academy

Independents
- Canton Central Catholic
- Cardinal Mooney
- Fairfield Christian Academy
- Grove City Christian
- Landmark Christian
- Lehman Catholic
- St. Edward
- St. Ignatius
- St. Thomas Aquinas
- St. Vincent-St. Mary
- St. Wendelin
- Sts. John & Paul
- Ursuline

Northeast
- St. Paul
- Archbishop Hoban
- Benedictine
- Lake Catholic
- Notre Dame-Cathedral Latin
- Padua Franciscan
- Walsh Jesuit
- Cleveland Central Catholic
- Holy Name
- John F. Kennedy
- St. Peter Chanel
- Trinity
- Villa Angela-St. Joseph
- Youngstown Christian
- Cuyahoga Valley Christian Academy
- Elyria Catholic

Northwest
- St. Joseph Central Catholic
- St. John's
- St. Henry
- Lima Central Catholic
- St. Mary Central Catholic
- Toledo Central Catholic
- Toledo St. Francis DeSales
- Toledo St. John's Jesuit
- Toledo Christian

Southeast
- Portsmouth Notre Dame

Southwest
• Archbishop Elder High School (boys)
• Badin High School (coed)
• Bishop Fenwick High School (coed)
• La Salle High School (boys)
• Archbishop McNicholas High School (coed)
• Archbishop Moeller High School (boys)
• Archbishop Purcell Marian High School (coed)
• Roger Bacon High School (coed)
• Cincinnati Country Day School
• Cincinnati Hills Christian Academy (coed)
• St. Xavier High School (boys)
• Summit Country Day School (coed)
- Dayton Christian
- Middletown Christian
- Troy Christian
- Chaminade-Julienne
- Carroll

St. Henry, listed in the NW district, is NOT a private school. St. Henry is a town of around 2,000 located in Mercer County, and has produced such athletes as Bobby Hoying, Jim Lachey, Jeff Hartings (all former NFL players) and Wally Post (played MLB.)

[eagles73Taylor]

Walk through these private schools and ask them what their percentage of kids on free and reduced lunches are? Some of them will ask you what that is! lol

The last I checked, Piketon had 30+ % living at or below the Federal poverty level. Nearly 80% are on free and reduced lunches. Socioeconomics plays a big role in a kids academic and athletic endeavors. I love the post above that said since parents of private school kids pay for their education they push it more! No Crap Sherlock, my kids are near the top of their class because I have an education and I value their education! Do you think EVERY parent does this? LOL Fail big time by that writer in Indianapolis.

Private schools limit their enrollment by not allowing a certain percentage of the population to ever enter their doors! They do this by 1. charging tuition, 2. not allowing certain shall we say undesirables to enter because of behavior or grades, and 3. they know no matter how many vouchers are out there, there are students and parents that will not take advantage of them. The only reason they are counted in the public schools is because the law forces them and a bus stops by their house to pick them up!

This is there advantage, the attract a better group of students and parents by blocking these other kinds of kids the public schools have to deal with! Its against the law to block these students in a public school they reside in, its good business for private schools not to accept them!

Like the Supreme Court Justice said about pornography, "I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it!" Thats not exactly right, but pretty close to our arguments as well!

[WitnessProtection]

So are you saying that children from low income families are not only bad students, but also bad athletes?

[eagles73Taylor]

You can try to spin it all you want, you know its true. I didnt say ALL, I said a percentage.

My Quote Exactly, "Private schools limit their enrollment by not allowing a certain percentage of the population to ever enter their doors! They do this by 1. charging tuition, 2. not allowing certain shall we say undesirables to enter because of behavior or grades, and 3. they know no matter how many vouchers are out there, there are students and parents that will not take advantage of them. The only reason they are counted in the public schools is because the law forces them and a bus stops by their house to pick them up!" My quote from above.

If you want to broad brush stroke and say all, you would be wrong, but the reverse is true as well to say none are either! There is a direct correlation between academic success and poverty, this transfers to athletics as well. The odds of a kids family not caring about academics, means that they probably dont care about athletics either. Notice I said probably, you will never hear me deal in absolutes!

There are examples of the opposites, low income family great students great athletes and high income families poor students and poor athletes, however the percentages do not lie!

Public schools have a higher percentage of these kids than privates, FACT!

[WitnessProtection]

No spin. Just asking a simple question.