SoutheasternOhioPreps.com

Parts of this quote from another thread got me wondering today:

frank-n-beans wrote:Look, I'm not trying to slam 'dubs in any way.... However, the father in me feels compelled to steer the younguns' back on the right path when they stray. I expect the same from him.... Other than OSU, the Big Ten is at the bottom in recruiting every year. You don't get the horses, you don't win the race....

I was also listen to Cowturd today, and he actually brought up a very good point concerning recruiting.
His point was that the Big 10 is NOT getting quality recruits, outside of OSU, and this is why OSU dominates the conference.
Other teams step up and contend from time to time, but it is because of 3-4 years of development and system continuity rather than pure talent.
This is why people will accurately say that Iowa and Wisconsin are good every 3-4 years.

His prime example was from this years upcoming recruiting class, as ranked by Rivals.com
Now, he didn't mention names of teams, just the conferences.
I'll give this list of the top 20 recruiting classes getting ready to be freshmen next year.
We both left OSU off the list (they are #8 so far)
When you look at the top #20 classes of 2011, you get the following conference breakdown:
SEC: 7/20
Big 12: 4/20
ACC: 3/20
Pac 10: 4/20
Notre Dame: 1/20
Big East, MWC, WAC and Big 10 other than OSU: 0/20

This really got me thinking as to where these conferences have stacked up in recruiting over the past 4 years (one graduating class).
So I charted it out and this is what I found:
Top 20 rankings
80 total classes
SEC: 8/20 top 5 classes over 4 years, 28 of the 80 top 20 classes over 4 years. 35% of all of the top 20 in recruiting in 4 years
Big 10: 2/20 top 5 classes (both from OSU), 9/80 of the top 20 classes,
------Without OSU only 6 of the possible 800 chances for the conference to land in the top 20 succeeded!!!
Big 12: 11/80 in the top 20
Pac 10: 15/80 in the top 20
ACC: 14/80 in the top 20
Notre Dame: 3/4 years in the top 20
Big East, MWC, WAC: ZERO top 20 recruiting classes in 4 years.

Now, this has shown 2 things:
1) The SEC is LOADED, we can debate the ethics of over recruiting, but fact remains, the level of talent dwarfs that in all other conferences.
2) The Coaching in the Big 10 is pretty darn good.
---For the Big 10 to be lacking so severely in top 20 recruiting classes outside of OSU, and for them to still be putting as many guys into the NFL, and constantly challenging OSU within the conference, there has to be something going right in player development.

Now, one thing I did notice as well, is that the SEC compared to OSU, the Buckeyes are right there with them, but the teams in the SEC are more seasoned by the time they play. BUT!!!, The Buckeyes have way more on field talent than Arkansas based on recruiting numbers.

I know that this has a ton of figures, but it does show the difference in talent levels.
For the Big 10 to fix itself, it's not about scheduling southern schools and changing their systems.
It's about getting the rest of the conference to excell in recruiting the way the Buckeyes do.

As frank-n-beans said:

You don't get the horses, you don't win the race

geographics, academics,and weather.

On outside the lines the other day they had a piece about recruiting. Say you got 20 scholarships available well the Big 10 might sign 21 guys while the SEC signs like 40 guys. Then tehy pick an dchoose which ones they think will be good and if you arent one you get asked to "Grey shirt" which is to basically be a scout team dummy and pay for the privilege. So basically what it was saying the SEC brings in a bigger stable of horses to find teh best ones and the ones not up to snuff get sent to the glue factory.

They are winning the big Games !

tigercannon71 wrote:On outside the lines the other day they had a piece about recruiting. Say you got 20 scholarships available well the Big 10 might sign 21 guys while the SEC signs like 40 guys. Then tehy pick an dchoose which ones they think will be good and if you arent one you get asked to "Grey shirt" which is to basically be a scout team dummy and pay for the privilege. So basically what it was saying the SEC brings in a bigger stable of horses to find teh best ones and the ones not up to snuff get sent to the glue factory.

Like I said, we can debate the ethics if over recruiting.

Maybe this is what the NCAA needs to look at. They want to have fair competition but this is giving teams an advantage by using the grayshirt to skate around the rules. Maybe it should limit the amount of players each team can have. If the NCAA will get on any player,coach or team who may break a rule that has nothing to do with gaining an advantage they need to look at this. As well as a player who signs and before they even play a game the coach is gone. But the player can not go to another school without being released and having to sit out a year.

The NCAA allows 25 scholarships per year.
The Big Ten makes their teams follow this to the point that they are allowed to sign 25 scholarship athletes a year.
If the NCAA universally ruled that you couldn't over sign, it would refuseniks talent pool in the SEC.

I still think they would get very good classes, but they would have to actually hit on their offers, instead of running it like a pro system with cut lists.

seofan_via_dublin wrote:Parts of this quote from another thread got me wondering today:

frank-n-beans wrote:Look, I'm not trying to slam 'dubs in any way.... However, the father in me feels compelled to steer the younguns' back on the right path when they stray. I expect the same from him.... Other than OSU, the Big Ten is at the bottom in recruiting every year. You don't get the horses, you don't win the race....

I was also listen to Cowturd today, and he actually brought up a very good point concerning recruiting.
His point was that the Big 10 is NOT getting quality recruits, outside of OSU, and this is why OSU dominates the conference.
Other teams step up and contend from time to time, but it is because of 3-4 years of development and system continuity rather than pure talent.
This is why people will accurately say that Iowa and Wisconsin are good every 3-4 years.

His prime example was from this years upcoming recruiting class, as ranked by Rivals.com
Now, he didn't mention names of teams, just the conferences.
I'll give this list of the top 20 recruiting classes getting ready to be freshmen next year.
We both left OSU off the list (they are #8 so far)
When you look at the top #20 classes of 2011, you get the following conference breakdown:
SEC: 7/20
Big 12: 4/20
ACC: 3/20
Pac 10: 4/20
Notre Dame: 1/20
Big East, MWC, WAC and Big 10 other than OSU: 0/20

This really got me thinking as to where these conferences have stacked up in recruiting over the past 4 years (one graduating class).
So I charted it out and this is what I found:
Top 20 rankings
80 total classes
SEC: 8/20 top 5 classes over 4 years, 28 of the 80 top 20 classes over 4 years. 35% of all of the top 20 in recruiting in 4 years
Big 10: 2/20 top 5 classes (both from OSU), 9/80 of the top 20 classes,
------Without OSU only 6 of the possible 800 chances for the conference to land in the top 20 succeeded!!!
Big 12: 11/80 in the top 20
Pac 10: 15/80 in the top 20
ACC: 14/80 in the top 20
Notre Dame: 3/4 years in the top 20
Big East, MWC, WAC: ZERO top 20 recruiting classes in 4 years.

Now, this has shown 2 things:
1) The SEC is LOADED, we can debate the ethics of over recruiting, but fact remains, the level of talent dwarfs that in all other conferences.
2) The Coaching in the Big 10 is pretty darn good.
---For the Big 10 to be lacking so severely in top 20 recruiting classes outside of OSU, and for them to still be putting as many guys into the NFL, and constantly challenging OSU within the conference, there has to be something going right in player development.

Now, one thing I did notice as well, is that the SEC compared to OSU, the Buckeyes are right there with them, but the teams in the SEC are more seasoned by the time they play. BUT!!!, The Buckeyes have way more on field talent than Arkansas based on recruiting numbers.

I know that this has a ton of figures, but it does show the difference in talent levels.
For the Big 10 to fix itself, it's not about scheduling southern schools and changing their systems.
It's about getting the rest of the conference to excell in recruiting the way the Buckeyes do.

As frank-n-beans said:

You don't get the horses, you don't win the race

props on a well thought out and detailed post....

great info. very good post

---- wrote:

seofan_via_dublin wrote:Parts of this quote from another thread got me wondering today:

frank-n-beans wrote:Look, I'm not trying to slam 'dubs in any way.... However, the father in me feels compelled to steer the younguns' back on the right path when they stray. I expect the same from him.... Other than OSU, the Big Ten is at the bottom in recruiting every year. You don't get the horses, you don't win the race....

I was also listen to Cowturd today, and he actually brought up a very good point concerning recruiting.
His point was that the Big 10 is NOT getting quality recruits, outside of OSU, and this is why OSU dominates the conference.
Other teams step up and contend from time to time, but it is because of 3-4 years of development and system continuity rather than pure talent.
This is why people will accurately say that Iowa and Wisconsin are good every 3-4 years.

His prime example was from this years upcoming recruiting class, as ranked by Rivals.com
Now, he didn't mention names of teams, just the conferences.
I'll give this list of the top 20 recruiting classes getting ready to be freshmen next year.
We both left OSU off the list (they are #8 so far)
When you look at the top #20 classes of 2011, you get the following conference breakdown:
SEC: 7/20
Big 12: 4/20
ACC: 3/20
Pac 10: 4/20
Notre Dame: 1/20
Big East, MWC, WAC and Big 10 other than OSU: 0/20

This really got me thinking as to where these conferences have stacked up in recruiting over the past 4 years (one graduating class).
So I charted it out and this is what I found:
Top 20 rankings
80 total classes
SEC: 8/20 top 5 classes over 4 years, 28 of the 80 top 20 classes over 4 years. 35% of all of the top 20 in recruiting in 4 years
Big 10: 2/20 top 5 classes (both from OSU), 9/80 of the top 20 classes,
------Without OSU only 6 of the possible 800 chances for the conference to land in the top 20 succeeded!!!
Big 12: 11/80 in the top 20
Pac 10: 15/80 in the top 20
ACC: 14/80 in the top 20
Notre Dame: 3/4 years in the top 20
Big East, MWC, WAC: ZERO top 20 recruiting classes in 4 years.

Now, this has shown 2 things:
1) The SEC is LOADED, we can debate the ethics of over recruiting, but fact remains, the level of talent dwarfs that in all other conferences.
2) The Coaching in the Big 10 is pretty darn good.
---For the Big 10 to be lacking so severely in top 20 recruiting classes outside of OSU, and for them to still be putting as many guys into the NFL, and constantly challenging OSU within the conference, there has to be something going right in player development.

Now, one thing I did notice as well, is that the SEC compared to OSU, the Buckeyes are right there with them, but the teams in the SEC are more seasoned by the time they play. BUT!!!, The Buckeyes have way more on field talent than Arkansas based on recruiting numbers.

I know that this has a ton of figures, but it does show the difference in talent levels.
For the Big 10 to fix itself, it's not about scheduling southern schools and changing their systems.
It's about getting the rest of the conference to excell in recruiting the way the Buckeyes do.

As frank-n-beans said:

You don't get the horses, you don't win the race

props on a well thought out and detailed post....

What are the reasons the SEC has so much success in recruiting and why are the players so good there? I think weather plays a huge part. I spent some time in the south and they have the luxury of playing year round. I saw youth league baseball games beginning at 9AM on SUNDAY morning. Try that above the Mason-Dixon line. It gives you an idea of what is important to them. They win because they are not ashamed of how they win. Alabama is a repeat offender, so what. Bruse Pearl lied and asked his players to lie and there is much more.

call the whamubulance , The SEC is cheating , and everyone else is playing strickly BY THE RULES ! get real yoss . MD

I can only speak for Alabama since that is the school I am very familiar with concerning recruiting. Alabama is allowed only 25 NCAA FOOTBALL scholarships per year just like every other NCAA school. A couple of exceptions apply: 1. Bama also has a scholarship(s) awarded to former Bama players children, Bryant scholarship. It is based on academics and need AND IS NOT JUST AN ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIP although, a few current students are also on the football team. 2. In years past and NOT BEING DONE NOW, Bama also had gray shirt. Students could enroll at Alabama, pay a semster or two of college and then be put on AN ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIP when one becomes available. The NCAA only allows 85, total scholarship football players on a team at one given time. I agree with seo via dublin that other than OSU, the Big 10 is at the bottom of recruiting when compared to the SEC.

After watching the Army High School All-Star game today running back Dimetrius Hart, the kid that was the MVP of the game and was supposed to go to Michigan is now going to Alabama and another 2 kids in that game who were going to Michigan are now going elsewhere also because of Rich Rod's firing according to the TV announcements made today. The Big Ten better make Michigan relevant again here soon or it will be just OSU and Nebraska to hold up the flag for the conference and that's not enough even with the new kid on the block Cornhuskers. Just sayin !!!!!

Nebraska. HA!

hopefully nebraska will do better than penn state has in the past

The NCAA allows you to enroll 25 new players on scholarship each august. The past 4 yrs Auburn has avg signing 29.75 players, olemiss, 28.75, bama and Miss st 28.25, Arkansas 27.25. Those are the top 5 in the ncaa the past 4 yrs. Southcarolina was 7th 26.5, LSU 8th 26.25. In 2009 Mississippi st signed 37 players. The last 4 yrs the sec after signing day avg having 103 kids on scholarship, the same time frame the Big 10 avg 86. Alabama had 85 on scholarship this yr, they lose 8 seniors, 3 juniors have declared so far so thats 11 openings. They currently have 22 verbals, plus 2 gray shirts from last yr that will count, so that 24 plus they are still going after a few kids. Say they end up signing 24 plus the 2 gray shirts thats 26. That puts them at 100 scholarships, 15 above the limit. How do they cut down to 85? In Sabans 4 yrs he has had 12 medical hardships, and 10 grayshirts. In Tressels 10yrs he has had 2 medicals and 1 grayshirt. They bring the kids in, look at them and if they aren't the top 85 they get rid of them one way or another. The worst case scenerio in just pulling the scholarships from upperclassman to make room for some hot shot freshman.

^^^
Ding!!!

While fbnut is correct in what he is saying.....

This will continue to go on until the NCAA cracks down. This isnt "cheating". If the every day common fan can see this, then the NCAA sees it as well. If the NCAA is allowing it to go on, why wouldnt these programs do this? I realize it is unethical or whatever...but what do you expect? I mean, really.

If I was Nick Saban, I would be doing this too. Saban also has manipulated many other rules. Such as assistant coaches and where his team practiced for their bowl game.

Something interesting I read the other day, Ohio State's sugar bowl opponent Arkansas signed 30 more kids than the bucks the last 4 yrs. That could be 2 small classes more than the bucks. I think everone needs to forget about the speed issue and start saying maybe this is one big reason why they have won the last 5 National championships. They get to bring in an extra class every 2-3 yrs.

Here is a link to the segment from OTL. Watch this and tell us it is okay to practice these methods of recruiting.
It is wrong to treat anyone this way.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5935634