Baseball Rule Violations

[Tim Hardaway Jr.]

Ha

[Bleeding Red]

heres what happened in the meigs and eastern game tonight. meigs had a runner on 2nd base the batter hit the ball to the fence and gets a triple after the play was over he called a balk on the play and put the runner back on 3rd and the batter back to the plate.that would be the right call but you dont wait until the play is over before you call balk,if it was a balk,he was the only one who saw it i know if a coach sees a balk he is yelling balk at the time and noone said anything.i have seen this umpire many times and he is always trying to putthe attention on him instead of the players.

The umpire needed to YELL "BALK" as soon as it happened and the pitch would have never existed. Standing up and waving your arms back and forth while YELLING "BALK" would have been helpful too.

Too many umpires wanting to star in the game vs umpiring it.

[Jarine32]

Pujols and Votto do straddle the bag as I was taught but frowned on.My glove is even with my right leg just in front of the bag.Pitchers are taught to throw to the glove.If the pitcher hits my glove I don't have to move it not near as far for the tag apposed to back foot on the corner and glove extended out catch the ball and move the glove what two feet for the tag.

[BlindWhiteHat]

Blindwhitehat, your dad was an excellent umpire. He probably umpired over half the high school games I have ever played. He and his crew never made such mistakes.

Your statement supports my reasoning as to why there are some umpiring problems. There are very few guys you see who have done it for a long time. Most guys seem to give it up because they just don't enjoy it or because they can't get games because they aren't very good. Either way, it is a shame to see so many inexperienced guys working games.

[wink]

Another rule I see repeatedly violated is the pitcher taking signs from the catcher while not on the rubber. I have less problem with this rule violation than the two previous, but nonetheless it is a rule violation.

Why is that a violation of the rules? Does it give the pitcher/catcher some sort of advantage?
Heck, I thought the catcher could walk out to the mound or meet the pitcher half way and give him the sign verbally if he wanted to.

[wink]

Last Thursday at the St. Joe/Chesapeake game, there were runners on second and third, and Peake had a left handed pitcher. The pitcher kept turning his right shoulder over toward 3rd base to look at the runner without stepping off the rubber and making a throw over to 3rd. This happened several times and a balk was never called.

Even if a pitcher can throw 130 mph he'd never make it to the "Bigs" if he had a chronic stiff neck and couldn't dip his shoulder a little to check on base runners.

[mhs95_06]

On a pitcher's pitch home, the 3rd base ump yells balk. The pitch is lined in the gap and a run scores. Does the successful offensive play mean the balk call is nullified? If the result of the batted ball was an out with no runner advancing, does the balk call stand and the batted ball and the pitch nullified? If the ball is a hit and one run scores and the 2nd runner is tagged out at home, does the offense have the option to choose to take the balk and no pitch, or take the results of the play?

[superblue]

On a pitcher's pitch home, the 3rd base ump yells balk. The pitch is lined in the gap and a run scores. Does the successful offensive play mean the balk call is nullified? If the result of the batted ball was an out with no runner advancing, does the balk call stand and the batted ball and the pitch nullified? If the ball is a hit and one run scores and the 2nd runner is tagged out at home, does the offense have the option to choose to take the balk and no pitch, or take the results of the play?

In baseball, a pitcher can commit a number of illegal motions or actions that constitute a balk. In games played under Official Baseball Rules, a balk results in a delayed dead ball, and the balk is ignored under specified circumstances. Under other rule sets, notably the National Federation of High Schools (Fed) Baseball Rules in the United States, a balk results in an immediate dead ball. In the event a balk is enforced, the pitch is nullified and each runner is awarded one base while the batter remains at bat with the previous count.

[Vision Quest]

Pujols and Votto do straddle the bag as I was taught but frowned on.My glove is even with my right leg just in front of the bag.Pitchers are taught to throw to the glove.If the pitcher hits my glove I don't have to move it not near as far for the tag apposed to back foot on the corner and glove extended out catch the ball and move the glove what two feet for the tag.

After watching the last two games between the Reds and Cardinals and Votto and Pujols holding runners on first, our definition of straddle is different. I see your interpretation which is ok, but mine is where the 1b stands with his left foot to the home side of the base, his right foot to the OF side of the base and he stands directly over the base.

[Vision Quest]

Another rule I see repeatedly violated is the pitcher taking signs from the catcher while not on the rubber. I have less problem with this rule violation than the two previous, but nonetheless it is a rule violation.

Why is that a violation of the rules? Does it give the pitcher/catcher some sort of advantage?
Heck, I thought the catcher could walk out to the mound or meet the pitcher half way and give him the sign verbally if he wanted to.

It is a violation of the rules because the rule book says the pitcher must take a signal while on the rubber. Why is it a rule? I don't know.

[mhs95_06]

On a pitcher's pitch home, the 3rd base ump yells balk. The pitch is lined in the gap and a run scores. Does the successful offensive play mean the balk call is nullified? If the result of the batted ball was an out with no runner advancing, does the balk call stand and the batted ball and the pitch nullified? If the ball is a hit and one run scores and the 2nd runner is tagged out at home, does the offense have the option to choose to take the balk and no pitch, or take the results of the play?

In baseball, a pitcher can commit a number of illegal motions or actions that constitute a balk. In games played under Official Baseball Rules, a balk results in a delayed dead ball, and the balk is ignored under specified circumstances. Under other rule sets, notably the National Federation of High Schools (Fed) Baseball Rules in the United States, a balk results in an immediate dead ball. In the event a balk is enforced, the pitch is nullified and each runner is awarded one base while the batter remains at bat with the previous count.

My 1st case was seen in a college game and they let the base hit stand so NCAA rules must let that override what would have been the result of a balk call. So Iguess in no jurisdiction does the offensive team get to take theeir pick of what they think is the more favorable outcome.

[RoadMan]

Does the rule say a pitcher cannot take a sign from off the rubber, then step into place and simulate taking a sign then pitch?

I don't think I have seen a pitcher on the rubber yet take a sign in a first and third situation. The catcher always seems to come out, give a signal then return behind the plate, is this different?

Rule 1.1.4 - At the time of the pitch, all fielders shall be on fair ground except
the catcher who shall be in the catcher's box. A fielder is in fair ground when at
least one foot is touching fair ground.

After reading this, as long as the fielder has one foot in at the TIME OF PITCH, there is no violation.

[jkumpire]

RHMS,

I am an umpire with a few years experience, so let me answer some questions:

"On two separate occasions this season, two different umpiring crews did not correctly call the rule application that applies to a third strike on a batter whereas the pitch was either wild or a pass ball, while at the same time runners were on 1st and second or just 1st with less than two outs. On both instances I witnessed this season, the batter was awarded 1st base after a third strike got away from the catcher. On both instance the umpires cited that the runner at first was stealing, thus 1st base was no longer occupied. I am not trying to down any local umpires because for the most part they do a fine job. However, whoever is over the local umpires needs to communicate with the umpiring crew the correct application of this rule."

This is a frustrating thing if it happens. This rule is talked about all the time, and it is a fundamental rule of the game. I assume this happens with younger umpires, a veteran would not miss this, and if he did his base partner should call time when the play is over and make the adjustment. However, the only adjustment by rule is that the Batter/Runner would be taken off 1st base. The other advances would stand. What did the coach do when he heard this explanation? I would not want to be the umpire getting a letter from OHSAA saying he missed this call.

"Another rule that I see repeatedly violated and not called deals with how 1st basemen hold runners on base. Time and time again I see 1st basemen straddling the bag when holding runners on and having one or both feet in foul territory. This is "Balk" situation. The only player allowed to be in foul territory prior to the pitch being delivered is the catcher. The 1st baseman and 3rd Basemen cannot stand in foul territory prior to the pitch being delivered. Once the ball is pitched they are free to go where they want. Prior to the pitch they must be in fair territory."

You are sadly incorrect. If the 1st baseman has one foot in fair ground, he is by rule considered in fair territory. If he has part of one foot in fair territory he is considered by rule to be in fair territory. If both feet are completely out of fair territory, by rule it is a balk, but if it is noticed an umpire will instruct the fielder to get into fair territory before he allows the ball to be pitched. A good umpire will make sure all players are legally in in fair ground before he puts the ball in play. But if an umpire misses it, he misses it, and there many more important things to watch for than where the 1st and 3rd basemen are. And as a practical matter, what team is putting their corner infielders at such a disadvantage by putting them in foul territory?

"Another rule I see repeatedly violated is the pitcher taking signs from the catcher while not on the rubber. I have less problem with this rule violation than the two previous, but nonetheless it is a rule violation."

Again, your perception is off, or you misunderstand the rule. How do you as a fan or opposing coach know what the other team's signals are? How can an umpire know what the signals the pitcher and catcher are using? Are they using signals at all? You can't know this, neither can an umpire. Therefore what the rule is in there to do is make sure the pitcher stops and pauses on the rubber before either starting his windup, or stretching and coming set. It makes sure the pitcher does not quick pitch the batter. No good umpire is going to balk a team because the pitcher nods his head when he is off the rubber looking in his dugout, then looks into the catcher without nodding, then stepping on the rubber, stopping, and then pitching or coming set.

"Another rule I have seen violated is the coach going out to talk to the pitcher each inning just after the warmups throws are completed and ball is being thrown down to second and passed around the infield. I my experience, this is a visit. Coaches do not get 7 visits per game per pitcher."

In my years of umpiring I've never seen this happen. However, by rule in High School baseball a coach may speak to his pitcher between innings as long as he does not violate the warmup rule between innings (after the 1st, 5 pitches in 1 minute after the last out is made the previous inning, giving a team some slack in some situations, like the pitcher being on base when the 3rd out is made). If he comes from the 3rd base coaches box and talks to the pitcher as he warms up that is not a charge conference, as long as he does not delay the start of the game. I would assume most umpires would not let the coach delay the start of an inning more than once without a warning or conference being charged.


I have not witnessed any of these violations affecting the outcomes of any games this season.

Good! Then umpires are doing their jobs, and letting the players decided the outcome of the game in accordance with the rules.

[jkumpire]

To several other posters:

As other have said, a Balk in HS Baseball means the ball is immediately dead. Most all other rules codes in 90' Baseball, NCAA and MLB, this is a delayed dead ball, meaning plays can happen after the balk if a pitch happens. Why did it take so long for the balk to be called and heard in the game? Who knows, maybe it just wasn't heard.

One other post:


Here is a good one (actually 2 good ones from the same crew)

"Last Thursday at the St. Joe/Chesapeake game, there were runners on second and third, and Peake had a left handed pitcher. The pitcher kept turning his right shoulder over toward 3rd base to look at the runner without stepping off the rubber and making a throw over to 3rd. This happened several times and a balk was never called."

In HS baseball, until a LH pitcher comes set with hands in front of his body he can legally turn his shoulders to look at 3B, just like a RH pitcher can do to look at 1B. IN HS same rules apply here for both RH and LH pitchers. And even in HS he could fake a throw to 3rd, or step to 3rd and throw. There is no requirement he has to step off to throw to 3B.


"Later on in the same game, St Joe had runners on first and second with no outs. There was a short pop up to the second baseman, who was standing stationary under the ball and dropped it (routine fly ball to the infield). He proceeded to throw to third base for a force out, and then tried to get another force out at second, because the runners knew the rule/situation for an infield fly and was waiting on the ump to call it while the ball was in the air. HELLO? Do these monkeys know what an infield fly rule is?"

Yes, I am sure the umpires know the rules. Which leads me to ask you about your description. You said "it was a short pop up". It may well be a soft line drive in the eyes of the umpire. Later you said the ball was a routine "fly ball in the infield". Sometimes a soft "humpback" line drive can be judged as an infield fly, or not judged that way. But if two umpires didn't call it an infield fly, it's hard to see how it wasn't called if it was an infield fly. What did the coach do? how many outs did they get on the play?

[Vision Quest]

To several other posters:

As other have said, a Balk in HS Baseball means the ball is immediately dead. Most all other rules codes in 90' Baseball, NCAA and MLB, this is a delayed dead ball, meaning plays can happen after the balk if a pitch happens. Why did it take so long for the balk to be called and heard in the game? Who knows, maybe it just wasn't heard.

One other post:


Here is a good one (actually 2 good ones from the same crew)

"Last Thursday at the St. Joe/Chesapeake game, there were runners on second and third, and Peake had a left handed pitcher. The pitcher kept turning his right shoulder over toward 3rd base to look at the runner without stepping off the rubber and making a throw over to 3rd. This happened several times and a balk was never called."

In HS baseball, until a LH pitcher comes set with hands in front of his body he can legally turn his shoulders to look at 3B, just like a RH pitcher can do to look at 1B. IN HS same rules apply here for both RH and LH pitchers. And even in HS he could fake a throw to 3rd, or step to 3rd and throw. There is no requirement he has to step off to throw to 3B.


"Later on in the same game, St Joe had runners on first and second with no outs. There was a short pop up to the second baseman, who was standing stationary under the ball and dropped it (routine fly ball to the infield). He proceeded to throw to third base for a force out, and then tried to get another force out at second, because the runners knew the rule/situation for an infield fly and was waiting on the ump to call it while the ball was in the air. HELLO? Do these monkeys know what an infield fly rule is?"

Yes, I am sure the umpires know the rules. Which leads me to ask you about your description. You said "it was a short pop up". It may well be a soft line drive in the eyes of the umpire. Later you said the ball was a routine "fly ball in the infield". Sometimes a soft "humpback" line drive can be judged as an infield fly, or not judged that way. But if two umpires didn't call it an infield fly, it's hard to see how it wasn't called if it was an infield fly. What did the coach do? how many outs did they get on the play?

Bleeding Red wasn't even at the game and has no idea where the pop fly was or how high. It was an average pop up to the infield, where the 2b got under it with minimal effort. No hump back liner. It was at the edge of the outfield grass, give or take a few steps. The play resulted in a dropped fly which the 2b threw for a force out at third, the only out on the pla. The offensive team coach discussed the play with the home plate umpire who retroactively called an infield fly and sent back both runners and retired the batter to the dugout. One umpire claimed to have lost the ball in the sun and the other remained silent.

[BlindWhiteHat]

They did not send the runners back. The play was made at third but the fielder didn't tag the runner. The runner was called out on a force without the infield fly being called. Since the umpires at that point called the batter out on the infield fly both runners were allowed to keep the bases they gained because they weren't tagged out before advancing safely.

[jkumpire]

Quest and White Hat (How can a White hat be blind? :122246 :122246 :122246)

In HS baseball By rule, even after the play is over the umpires can call an infield fly, so if the 2B catches the ball or drops it, the umpire can still call the INF. Even after the play is totally over there is coverage in the rules for the umpire to fix the mistake after all play has ceased. They could have called the batter out and returned the original runners to 2nd and 1st.

That is what they should have done in this case. they should not have "eaten the call" because the defense got an out on the play. It doesn't taste good doing that, but its the only thing to do in that situation. But none of is perfect, and if that is the only mistake they made in the game, so they must have done a good job for the most part.

[Pol pot]

You want to make a coach mad, call the balk on the pitcher takking sings while off the rubber. I call it every time, and I get every excuse in the book, from scratching an itch to positioning the fielders (while he's down in a crouch, with his hand between his legs).

[jkumpire]

P** P**,

Are you serious?
What an ugly handle, can't you find anything better than that?

[Pol pot]

Dead serious!