DII Logan Sectional

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93Bulldog
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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by 93Bulldog »

bman wrote:As for the SOS argument, Athens argues with playing Akron SVSM and Warren with Bishop Watterson that those were tough games and games that teams in SE Ohio couldn't beat. I agree with that statement 100 percent. So let's add Akron SVSM to LE's loss count to compare them to Athens or Watterson to LE's to compare them to Watterson. LE still has less losses than either Athens or Warren, and now has the SOS cred argument. I'm throwing all out-of-state wins or losses out of the argument for now because we don't have a favorable way of comparing. I did notice the argument of well Portsmouth beat a team LE lost to in the Florida tournament. That comes down to matchups. Not saying LE would beat Portsmouth, but going against a FLCA team that went 7-4, 7-1, 6-10, 6-8, and 6-6 with its starters in that tournament was a tough matchup for a team that's tallest player is 6-2.
When your talking 1 loss, 2 losses, 3 losses ... it's hard to definitively say one team should be awarded the No. 1 seed on that basis (number of losses) alone ... especially when the 3 teams in question play in different leagues and have completely different schedules.

Athens went 19-1 in 2009 and WASN'T awarded the No. 1 seed ... the entire 'resume' will be judged and evaluated by each coach in Jackson and then they'll decide who the No. 1 is.

If we were to 'nit-pick' at things ... If Warren beats Athens by more than 1-point, couldn't they say they deserve the 1 over LE because the Braves only beat Athens 60-59? To me, that's a little ridicules as are some of the other comparisons ... I'm guessing if Warren DOES beat Athens, they just flat out have more quality wins and the more impressive resume, IMO.


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by bman »

If Warren beats Athens and goes undefeated the rest of the way out, I can understand its argument. I will say Bloom-Carroll, a team LE has beat, plays Hartley this week, so we'll have a little better barometer about the differing schedules this week.

Athens went 19-1 in 2010 and Logan Elm went 18-2. The TVC-Ohio, outside of Athens and Vinton, was not very good, and Athens was new to the TVC and hadn't adjusted its out of conference schedule yet like it has now. Logan Elm's two losses came against D1 Westerville South, which won an OCC divisional championship that season and a loss in league. Three MSL-Buckeye teams made district championship games that season, with Logan Elm edging Warren to go to regionals.


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

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bman wrote:Athens went 19-1 in 2010 and Logan Elm went 18-2. The TVC-Ohio, outside of Athens and Vinton, was not very good, and Athens was new to the TVC and hadn't adjusted its out of conference schedule yet like it has now. Logan Elm's two losses came against D1 Westerville South, which won an OCC divisional championship that season and a loss in league. Three MSL-Buckeye teams made district championship games that season, with Logan Elm edging Warren to go to regionals.
Exactly ... it's a perfect point where 'resume', 'SOS' trumped overall record ... Portsmouth and Valley (2 of Warrens wins) could easily be in district championship games, as were the 2 other MSL teams in 2010 ... But it will be wins over Hartley and Athens (if it happens) that will push the Warriors over the top. Hartley just lost to Watterson 46-40, BTW, which kind of proves how good Bishop Hartley really is. How you're playing down the stretch will certainly be evaluated, just like it is during the NCAA selection process. I have seen numerous times a team beat one team early in the season but not get seeded above them in the field of 64 ... It just happened not to long ago; I think it was Duke who beat Michigan State in the Big Ten/ACC challenge early on - but the Spartans were awarded the 1 and Duke was a 2.

Quality wins, impressive wins, SOS and what have you done for me lately will be more important than losses in the loss column (when its this close).


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by 93Bulldog »

Of course if Athens beats Warren?

ALL BETS ARE OFF ... It's a complete free-for-all ... how the coaches 3-through-9 see it will be the only thing that matters.


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

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If Bloom-Carroll defeats Hartley, that strengthens Logan Elm's argument, as well as the perception of how strong the MSL-Buckeye is. I get Warren saying Hartley, Valley and Portsmouth, I get Athens saying Valley and I get Logan Elm saying Athens and Court House, and maybe Bloom-Carroll if they beat Hartley to add to the Africentric non-league win. But when FCA and Fort Frye in case of Warren or Circleville and Vinton County are brought into the mix on Athens' size, the wins Logan Elm has in its league or the Chillicothe non-league win in comparison to, say VC or Meigs, are just as good.

I don't argue the SOS of either SVSM or Watterson. Both are very good teams that would beat anyone down here. Like I said, add a loss to Logan Elm's resume if you want a fairer comparison. Same could be applied to your 2010 example, 93Dog.

My feeling is Athens beats Warren, but I could be wrong. They're both very solid teams. If Warren can take wins over Hartley, Valley, Portsmouth and Athens and not lose again into the draw that's pretty impressive.

At the end of the day, the district needs to go to an open draw to reward the best teams. Maybe this year will finally reinforce that. The best teams should be able to pick their path.
Last edited by bman on Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by 93Bulldog »

Or they could all be one sectional so the 4 BEST TEAMS have the best shot to come out ... :122249


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by WarriorBlue »

Let's don't 4get to add Valley to the Warren resume of quality wins. If they can beat FCA again and then beat Athens. That's 3 wins against the top 5 in the PFloyd Elite Poll. Now that's rather impressive.

Warren Quality Wins
Valley
Portsmouth
Bishop Hartley
FCA
Fort Frye

Left to Play
Fort Frye
FCA
Athens


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by Raider6309 »

This is a good argument tho
warren has by far the most quality wins
Athens is the most talented team
Logan elm beat Athens the third game of the year


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by bman »

Thanks for the catch WarriorBlue. Warren has some nice wins and a very solid ballclub.

Logan Elm's win over Athens still counts as a quality win and is a head-to-head matchup. Good luck scheduling December games next year against anyone in the Logan sectional if the matchup doesn't count unless Athens wins. :122249


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by bman »

Quality wins, not including out-of-state teams

Warren's - courtesy WarriorBlue
Valley
Portsmouth
Bishop Hartley
FCA
Fort Frye

Logan Elm
Athens
Washington Court House
Bloom-Carroll
Teays Valley
Circleville


Athens
Valley
Circleville
Vinton County...I feel like putting Chillicothe for Logan Elm if we go with this. Comparable.


No other team in SE Ohio could beat this team - SOS argument - not including out-of-state teams
Athens - Akron SVSM
Warren - Watterson


Athens' schedule has been hurt some by Ironton being down this year. If you judge by the past several years, that would be a very attractive matchup. A similar case can be made with Fairland and Chillicothe in the case of Warren and Logan Elm, respectively. Chillicothe has rebounded off a tough start and is playing pretty good right now, but they aren't what they have been.


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by swohio »

A solution to make everyone happy. Seed LE #1, the winner of the Athens/Warren game #2 and the loser #4. The LE fans could then be happy with their #1 seed and the Athens/Warren fans wouldn't have to worry about one of the best 2 teams getting knocked out of the tournament early. I'm sure as the #1 seed LE fans would relish the chance to put either Athens or Warren out of the tournament.


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

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Our sectional needs to be like the rest of the state. If LE is 1, Athens is 2, and warren is 3. Le will pick top seed, Athens will pick 2 and warren will take 4. Flip flop if warren beats Athens next week


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by 93Bulldog »

All this talk of WANTING to play Logan Elm is worrisome ... let's tone it down a little ... I don't want the Braves coming into the sectional with a major chip on their shoulder! lol


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

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^all this talk is making the 4th seed team mad. I wouldn't be surprised if the 4 beats the 1. Warren and Athens don't wanna play because its always close


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

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I'm sure bman would be laughing himself to sleep at night if Sheridan and Logan Elm were the 2 teams representing the Logan sectional at the Convo ...

- just messin with ya bman

:mrgreen:


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

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I mean Sheridan and Athens/warren. But IDC where Athens is put. They can play with anyone in d2 if they use their size and strength. Burrow looks like he is a mission. Second best player I've watched this year. Svsm jalen Hudson was the best


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by bman »

93Dog, if Sheridan, which has a talented and athletic team, or Vinton County, which takes a lot of pride in its tradition, knocks off one of the top three teams, I would not be surprised. Could I see a situation where LE gets the 1 and loses to Sheridan? Yes. In the tournament, all it takes is one off night, foul trouble, the way a game is being called or a number of other factors.

In 2008, Chillicothe beats Logan Elm by one point in district championship game on the way to the state title. Logan Elm led most of the game and probably should've won it. Couldn't stop Chambers, who was a fantastic player for the Cavaliers. None of the teams we're talking about this year are as good as that Chillicothe team, so anything can happen.


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

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Raider6309, that's perfectly fine with me with teams choosing their paths. That's how it should be. The only other amendment I'd make to your situation is we have an open draw for the entire district by division, just not a sectional.


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by 93Bulldog »

bman wrote:I get Warren saying Hartley, Valley and Portsmouth, I get Athens saying Valley and I get Logan Elm saying Athens and Court House.
After seeing where Circleville beat Washington Court House 61-48 - I'm not sure you can really add them to LE's list ...

I mean, Athens was up on Circleville by almost 30 points after 3 quarters! Athens 52, Circleville 23 ... Before winning 62-43.

I wasn't really sure about Court House because I wasn't familiar with their opponents - but losing by 12 to Circleville kind of gives me a glimpse into the Blue Lions. And losing by 27 to Logan Elm also?

You'll probably have to scratch that one off the list ... :-)


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Re: DII Logan Sectional

Post by bman »

Bloom-Carroll defeated Hartley by 11 and Circleville beats Washington Court House by 13. Good night for the MSL-Buckeye.


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