FINAL TVC OHIO STANDINGS

HelmetSplitter · Post by **HelmetSplitter** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:51 pm

I am absolutely amazed by some ot the things being suggested by Orestes and Jake. I would recommend that you go back and re-read your posts. With the things going on in our society today, you're encouraging retaliation by creating a "state of war" between the two schools, warning that Alexander better have a good trainer because someone must pay, calling for a bloodbath in the TVC next year and classlessly running the score up on everyone. Have you guys lost you stinking minds??? And to have the audacity to say you're clowning around, you need help! We live in an era where kids are bringing guns to schools, taking guns to malls and slaughtering people. I think you need to step back and reevaluate your recommendations.
I am equally amazed that SEOP would let this forum continue. I must say that I am stunned by the lack of leadership that SEOP has shown. To allow a coaches picture to be posted with the word ASS written across it is mind boggling to me. I was a huddler for 10 years before moving over to SEOP. I must say that it is back to the huddle for me.
Hopefully, the student-athletes reading this forum realize that you all are just a bunch of frustrated ex-athletes still living a dream and don't take any of your thoughtless advice to heart.

Orestes · Post by **Orestes** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:26 pm

HelmetSplitter wrote:I am absolutely amazed by some ot the things being suggested by Orestes and Jake. I would recommend that you go back and re-read your posts. With the things going on in our society today, you're encouraging retaliation by creating a "state of war" between the two schools, warning that Alexander better have a good trainer because someone must pay, calling for a bloodbath in the TVC next year and classlessly running the score up on everyone. Have you guys lost you stinking minds??? And to have the audacity to say you're clowning around, you need help! We live in an era where kids are bringing guns to schools, taking guns to malls and slaughtering people. I think you need to step back and reevaluate your recommendations.
I am equally amazed that SEOP would let this forum continue. I must say that I am stunned by the lack of leadership that SEOP has shown. To allow a coaches picture to be posted with the word booty written across it is mind boggling to me. I was a huddler for 10 years before moving over to SEOP. I must say that it is back to the huddle for me.
Hopefully, the student-athletes reading this forum realize that you all are just a bunch of frustrated ex-athletes still living a dream and don't take any of your thoughtless advice to heart.

OMG. Have you ever heard anyone say, "We are going to kill that team" before a game? Really? Because they mean they are going to beat them by a lot of points. Knee-jerk much?

I simply mean NY, if they were my team, would win by as much as possible against anyone who was partially involved in this situation. Bloodbath = blowout Trainers on hand = hard hitting

Wow, sensitivity really reigns with you. Don't try to twist around obvious references to a blowout in football, in a way that would make it seem I am encouraging off the field violence. NOTE TO ALL HIGH SCHOOL KIDS: I AM NOT ENCOURAGING NON-FOOTBALL RELATED VIOLENCE WHEN I SAY "KICK THE OTHER TEAM"S BUTT" ....whew...that was a close one. I guess I gave the kids credit for some slight sense. My bad.

BTW, that was not a picture of Arno. It was taken from a Conan O'brien skit where they give someone the "ass-stamp" for either something the person said or did.

joliet jake · Post by **joliet jake** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:47 pm

Helmet splitter. It a history lesson. That is FDR's infamy speach when Japan bombed Pearl harbor. It would have been obvious if you had paid attention in school. Go back and read the post and think about history class. Geeze..... :roll:

buckfan84 · Post by **buckfan84** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:00 pm

Honestly, this is the only thing to create a rivalry in football between Alex and NY as Nelsonville York has dominated this series. I understand what you are saying about retaliation but I think the posts clearly intended that NY should run the score up and who knows, maybe Boston will. If enough of us who have man-crushes on him ask him to, he might just do it. I can't see it happening but you never know.

NYBuckeye96 · Post by **NYBuckeye96** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:22 pm

You also have to remember that next year's freshman class will be the first of the upcoming "great classes" of players. Just look at what this class has done on the football field since they were in second grade. It's unreal! This years undefeated 8th grade season is just the latest chapter of dominance this class has had since 2nd grade.

Now, next year when the starters are taken out of the game in the third or fourth quarter, it will be this class that is in there at the end of some of these games! I think they will, as freshmen, run all over some of the weaker schools at the end of the game.

A 60-0 score is very realistic if you think about it because next year's freshman class will be more than capable of stepping up and producing when the starters are pulled in the game.

This should be the case for the next few years, as the 7th grade team and the 5th/6th grade teams also all went undefeated. In most cases, all of these teams flat out dominated everyone and rarely were they ever challenged in terms of a game being on the line in the 4th quarter.

I don't think NY at any point in history has had all of these teams go undefeated at the same time before. There is a monster that is about to be unleashed on southeastern Ohio in the next few years.

For those in doubt, just ask someone at your school what NY did to your 8th, 7th, or biddy league teams this year. It wasn't pretty! If you don't beat NY in the next year or two, its going to be at least 4 additional years before you will beat the Buckeyes! Even the great Buckeye teams of the 90s never had all of the younger kids dominate at the same time as they do now. NY is going to have some great teams to watch in the upcoming years!

And even when NY has its "down years" such as 2007, the Buckeyes still have great seasons! How great is it to be from a school that would consider a season "disappointing" when players at some other schools would consider a similar season at their school one of the most memorable seasons in recent memory.

NY football is a lot like pizza.......even when its "bad" its still pretty darn good! :-D

Orestes · Post by **Orestes** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:58 am

Captain Jack wrote:buckfan84,
Thank you for admitting the mancrush. So many others are living in denial and I think if they could just admit the crush to themselves it would feel like a weight has been lifted off their chest. Maybe, because of your courage, others will come forward.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. :lol:

buckfan84 · Post by **buckfan84** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:17 am

Captain Jack wrote:buckfan84,
Thank you for admitting the mancrush. So many others are living in denial and I think if they could just admit the crush to themselves it would feel like a weight has been lifted off their chest. Maybe, because of your courage, others will come forward.

Anything for you. I was wondering if you could loan me your Love Songs CD.
That would set the mood perfectly. Better yet, can I borrow your Air Supply album. That would be awesome.

boilermaker · Post by **boilermaker** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:35 pm

interception · Post by **interception** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:10 pm

Bottom line, I don't care how long Alexander waited, Nelsonville dropped the ball. If the oversight wasn't there in the first place then this topic wouldn't even be discussed. However, on another note. I could care less how many people on here on going to disagrre with me. Alot of kids get on this site and what I hate more than anything is the talk about how drunk Coach Arno and his cronies were. Do I think teachers, coaches, etc. are human, yes, but nothing I hate anymore than hypocrites or those that live by the motto "do as I say, not as I do." My respect for Coach Arno and those with him that even got on here and professed to all the drinking is nil. What kid is supposed to look up to you now? How many kids now will say well if Coach can do it why can't we? Yeah, I know there is an age difference but the message is still there. If I was a kid that got in trouble by this coach I would be hard pressed to not say, "well Coach I learned it all from you." "I'm just following the example your setting." Pack your bags, the respect is gone.

Sue E. Side · Post by **Sue E. Side** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:13 am

The way I look at it, Arno is a grown a55 man and did not do anything illegal. Someone said he was in a limo so that means he didn't drive. The man is aloud to have some fun. The kids will still have respect for him. I'm sure most of the kids parents drink and I bet most respect them. The kids would be doing something illegal thats why its different. It sucks for Nelsonville that this happened but I'm sure it will motivate their kids. Good luck to all the T.V.C. teams next year.

ATownWarrior · Post by **ATownWarrior** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:14 am

this whole topic is a knee slapper. how is it that the coaching staff at alexander could know about the grade problems, but the principal at the school the student attended doesnt know? i give credit to NY for having the balls to turn themselves in, but it shouldnt have gotten to the point to where alexander had to do it. thats now a thing of the past.

for coach arno's defense what he does on his free time is nobody else's business. i like the sayin "if it doesnt involve you then stay the F**k out of it." i dont see the big deal with him "drinking" on a way to the game. i know a little about mike bishop, and i played for coach arno my last three years in high school. i know they are both respectable people, i think the fact is that they did it responsibly. there were some kids on the team this year that was penalized for some parties. he made them do work at practice. believe it or not the students are gonna drink whether the coach or parents want them to. some parents will tell the kids that drinkings not near as bad if you drink responsibly. as far as i know arno did just that. i dont think this is a place to post bad stuff about an excellent coach who wants nothing more but a good season, and the respect from his peers. whether the talk on here changes your mind about coach arno or not, he has not done more than most other people around here have.

if it does change your thoughts about arno dont take it out on the alexander teams, district, or community. all of the teams including the state runner ups, do what they can to follow the rules. and seeing all theses post about people knocking the alexander program because we have two wins in how ever many years, this shows just how much class you have. those who were on the teams that got these two wins are actually proud of them. say what you want but i was on both teams that won the two games, and ill say im proud of it.

i think this whole thing has gotten a little out of hand, lets grow up some people.

tomcat fan · Post by **tomcat fan** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:28 pm

a very unfortunate thing to happen to NY. everyone around the area knows you were the champs, just not on paper.

boilermaker · Post by **boilermaker** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:21 pm

I dont agree tomcat ,,if you dont follow the rules you are not playing fair so No they are not champs ,,,,Belpre is ;-)

bucksfan08 · Post by **bucksfan08** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:24 pm

the only reason you dotn agreeis because your EXCUSE FOR A FOOTBALL TEAM got a win by default. we all know what was done on the field. it may not be on paper, but in the hearts of all of the players and coaches of the NYHS team they still are the champs.

Army · Post by **Army** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:30 pm

boilermaker wrote:I dont agree tomcat ,,if you dont follow the rules you are not playing fair so No they are not champs ,,,,Belpre is

I second that, two wrongs don't make a right

How are you going to lead N-Y by example, or by other means? Truth is reality. When ever there is wrong, the light usually exposes it. So accept from the mistake that has taken place, learn from it, and move forward in placing the right checks and balances to catch something like this in the future. Especially before the season starts. Right?

Belpre is sole TVC Ohio Champs for 2007... period

Final TVC Ohio standings are as follows

4-1-0 Belpre

3-2-0 Meigs
3-2-0 N-York
3-2-0 VC
1-4-0 Alex
1-4-0 Wellston

N-Y posters the threat against the other (Ohio Division Teams) for next season shows real class concerning your program. Like, were going to run up the score on them. Lets see what really happens next season.

Especially when they play Ironton from the SEOAL.

If Trimble and Belpre can have your number so can Wellston, VC, Meigs, Alexander and Athens too.

N-Y you all aren't invincible. The threats I doubt has scared any...in the (Ohio Division) to include VC, Wellston, Meigs, Belpre and yes Alexander. And now Athens too!

Looks like NY lost (2 Ohio Division) games...huh? One to Belpre and now one by forfiet to Wellston

And was defeated by the TVC (Hocking Division) team Trimble

The one who really lost out in the whole scheme of things was Lucasville Valley from the SOC II by not being afforded the opportunity to play in week 11 due to this issue.

Boilermaker,

Someone should make sure the Wellston Administrators knows this so, the Seniors can up-date their year book for 2007-2008 concerning the forfiet win over NY.

As for the Head Coach not knowing....that is a cop out excuse. It is the responsibility for every (Head Coach) to know any and everything concerning there kids who play on the Team....especially there grades and status on eligibility to play sports. And.......especially, on anyone that transfers in. Right? No excuses...point blank.

If any (Head Coach) in H.S. doesn't truly know the status on all there players what's that say about there program?

Good Luck TVC Ohio for 2008

NYBuckeye96 · Post by **NYBuckeye96** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:32 pm

Don't worry about arguing with boilermaker Bucksfan, he knows how sorry his team will be next year. Why do you think he continuously posts on this thread and has not posted on the TVC 2008 thread? Because he knows how long 2008 will be for Wellston! :lol:

Orestes · Post by **Orestes** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:02 pm

Here is my problem with NY being forced to forfeit games.

They were punished as much as a team would be punished for playing an entire starting lineup of ineligible players for two games. However, they played a sub in blowout situations only, and yet, the punishment is the same. Is common sense not used in the OHSAA's decision making process? Do they just follow these black and white booklets and make a judgement? In the regular court of law, such circumstances are most definitely taken into consideration. I think the ruling was ridiculous and shameful.

Does no one else notice the problem with this? Are both rule infractions the same? No way.

Why not put NY on probation, and tell them, "If another case such as this occurs within the next 10 years, NY will be forced to forfeit the entire season, regardless of the amount of games the ineligible player participated in during the season."

This would put the spotlight on NY, and would also be a flexible decision, unlike the blanket-ruling of forfeiting games, regardless of the specifics in the case.

I think the TVC and OHSAA dropped the ball on this one. Each situation should be considered on a case to case basis. There are grey areas, and each case is unique.

Of course, I do not expect NY's competitors to agree with me, as they are giddy about the idea of finding a chink in NY's armor. I don't expect them to be unbias in assessing this situation. The OHSAA, on the other hand, proved themselves to be an embarrassment in this case. They revealed that they cannot be trusted to consider all avenues available to them in each situation.

Army · Post by **Army** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:30 pm

Orestes wrote:Here is my problem with NY being forced to forfeit games.

They were punished as much as a team would be punished for playing an entire starting lineup of ineligible players for two games. However, they played a sub in blowout situations only, and yet, the punishment is the same. Is common sense not used in the OHSAA's decision making process? Do they just follow these black and white booklets and make a judgement? In the regular court of law, such circumstances are most definitely taken into consideration. I think the ruling was ridiculous and shameful.

Does no one else notice the problem with this? Are both rule infractions the same? No way.

Why not put NY on probation, and tell them, "If another case such as this occurs within the next 10 years, NY will be forced to forfeit the entire season, regardless of the amount of games the ineligible player participated in during the season."

This would put the spotlight on NY, and would also be a flexible decision, unlike the blanket-ruling of forfeiting games, regardless of the specifics in the case.

I think the TVC and OHSAA dropped the ball on this one. Each situation should be considered on a case to case basis. There are grey areas, and each case is unique.

Of course, I do not expect NY's competitors to agree with me, as they are giddy about the idea of finding a chink in NY's armor. I don't expect them to be unbias in assessing this situation. The OHSAA, on the other hand, proved themselves to be an embarrassment in this case. They revealed that they cannot be trusted to consider all avenues available to them in each situation.

Sure there are circumstances in every situation, but the TVC and the OHSAA didn't drop the ball, Nelsonville-York did, all for the cause to claim that they had won another share of a TVC Ohio Division Football Championship

At what cost

Look at who was left out of the playoffs due to your schools mistake, Lucasville Valley. Not to mention, you all had to forfiet the game against Wellston. No matter how bad your Buckeyes defeated the Golden Rockets this season. In the eyes of truth you were caught and now your victory turns into a defeat, thus losing your TVC Ohio Co-Championship with Belpre.

What's high school about? Education and educating our kids to become tomorrow's leaders right? Or, is it all about sports championships at all cost? No matter what.

Even in sports, don't we teach our kids that there are rules, guidelines and standards to live by

When you blame everybody but the true source....of this issue, your own schools failure to catch the mistake from the administration all the way down to the HC; what's that say? Don't blame the TVC and the OHSAA for the mistake, it was Nelsonville-Yorks fault and no one elses. Quit making excuses! Stand-up and take responsibility for your actions.